Why my conversation with Brian Vogel matters more than ever
Let me be blunt.
If you’re leading people right now and you’re not coaching them, you’re firefighting.
And sooner or later, you’ll burn out… or they will.
In this week’s episode of Impactful Teamwork, I sat down with Brian Vogel, founder of Sun Dog Coaching and co-founder of Sensible HR.
What unfolded was one of those conversations that quietly rewires how you see leadership.
Not flashy.
Not fluffy.
Deeply practical.
And deeply human.
This is an episode for leaders who feel the weight of responsibility and know the old “manager” playbook no longer cuts it.
From HR Veteran to Coach at Heart
Brian spent 25 years in HR, across enterprise, scale-ups and start-ups.
He knows the system from the inside.
But what struck me most was how honest he was about getting pulled away from what actually lights him up.
Like so many leaders, Brian became highly skilled at many things…
Without stopping to ask which ones brought him energy.
It took a coach asking one deceptively simple question:
“What do you really love about your work?”
The answer wasn’t compliance.
It wasn’t payroll.
It was coaching.
That moment matters.
Because how many leaders do you know (maybe you) who are brilliant at what they do… yet quietly disconnected from what gives them life?
Coaching, Swimming and the Power of Visible Progress
Before HR, Brian was a competitive swimmer and swim coach.
And this is where the metaphor landed hard for me.
In swimming, results are immediate.
You don’t debate progress.
You see it on the pace clock.
Brian shared how coaching swimmers taught him something leaders often forget:
Performance is the outcome of behaviours, repeated over time.
Not KPIs.
Not dashboards.
Not clever strategies.
Behaviours.
Which brings us to one of my favourite lines from the entire conversation.
Results Are Just Aggregated Behaviours
Let this land.
“Results are nothing more than aggregated behaviours.”
Read that again.
If you’re frustrated with results, the work is not “more pressure”.
The work is noticing, affirming and adjusting behaviours.
That’s leadership.
That’s coaching.
Brian summed up the leader’s role beautifully:
👉 Affirm what’s working
👉 Adjust what’s not
Simple.
Not easy.
But transformational when practiced consistently.
The Most Underrated Leadership Tool: The One-to-One
We went deep on one-to-ones, and I’ll say this plainly:
If your one-to-ones feel like project updates, you’re wasting the most powerful leadership lever you have.
Brian calls it the Manager Trinity:
- One-to-ones
- Coaching
- Feedback
And here’s the reframe many leaders miss:
The one-to-one is not your meeting.
It’s theirs.
His suggested structure is beautifully human:
- 10 minutes for them
- 10 minutes for you
- 10 minutes for their development
And if something has to drop?
It’s your agenda.
That’s how trust is built.
That’s how performance compounds.
Delegation Isn’t About Letting Go, It’s About Growing Others
One of the most honest parts of the conversation was around delegation.
Leaders often say:
“I’ll just do it myself, it’s quicker.”
And in the short term, they’re right.
In the long term?
They create dependency, frustration and boredom.
Brian’s advice to emerging leaders was clear:
👉 Give people more responsibility
👉 Stretch them
👉 Stop protecting them from challenge
Nobody grows when everything stays comfortable.
And here’s the kicker…
Often the tasks you hate are someone else’s zone of genius.
I’ve lived this myself.
Assuming others would hate what I hated… and unintentionally holding them back.
Working Genius and Why Burnout Isn’t About Hours
We touched on the Six Types of Working Genius, developed by Patrick Lencioni, and it landed powerfully.
Just because you’re good at something
Doesn’t mean it gives you energy.
Burnout, as Brian shared, often isn’t about working too many hours.
It’s about working too many hours in your frustration zone.
Read that slowly.
If you’re constantly drained, the question isn’t “How do I do less?”
It’s “What am I doing that costs me energy rather than fuels it?”
Mental Fitness: The Inner Game of Leadership
One of the richest parts of this episode was our conversation about mental fitness.
Brian works with leaders using the Saboteur model from Positive Intelligence.
In simple terms:
- Saboteurs are the fear-based voices in your head
- The Sage is the calm, wise, creative part of you
Here’s the truth many leaders avoid:
You cannot lead others if you can’t lead your own mind.
Energy leaks start internally.
Beliefs ripple outward.
And yes, your team feels it.
Leadership Is Human Work, Not Role Management
One moment that really stayed with me was when Brian talked about knowing your people.
Not superficially.
Humanly.
Knowing their partner’s name.
Knowing if they have children.
Knowing what matters to them.
Not prying.
Caring.
Because people don’t go above and beyond for leaders who treat them like resources.
They show up for leaders who see them.
WIN: What’s Important Now
We closed the conversation with a deceptively simple concept from Lou Holtz.
WIN = What’s Important Now
Not everything.
Not everyone.
Now.
Big momentum is built through small, intentional wins.
The question I’m leaving you with (and the one I left listeners with at the end of the episode) is this:
What’s your win this week?
What’s important now?
Show Notes
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:09 Brian Vogel’s Background and Career Journey
02:08 Transition to Coaching and Founding Sundog Coaching
05:13 The Importance of Coaching in Leadership
07:53 Effective One-on-One Meetings
10:51 Delegation and Team Development
13:51 Understanding Working Genius and Avoiding Burnout
17:21 Mental Fitness and Positive Intelligence
29:44 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways
You can connect with Brian Vogel here
Request the Saboteurs Assessment by emailing he***@************ng.com
